tv U.S. House of Representatives CSPAN November 3, 2009 5:00pm-8:00pm EST
right now, horrifying breaking news out of cleveland, ohio. local affiliates reporting two more bodies pulled from a convicted rapist's home meaning at least eight so far. at this hour families of missing women are painfully searching for answers. neighbors, they had talked and complained about an odor for years. it was so strong, the police, they said they smelled death 15 feet from the door. why didn't anybody say anything sooner? the latest on that and, also, this story, a young woman so full of life, savagely run down in a parking lot. the accused? her own father.
this young woman died after being in a coma for weeks now cops say the iraqi dad admits to everything says she was too westernized. too american. her clothes, lifestyle, a boyfriend brought shame to his family. that's a reason to kill your own flesh and blood? love hearing from you. call in. the number, 1-877-tell-hln. you can e-mail us cnn.com/prime news or send us a text message at hln tv, start your message with the word "prime." your chance to be heard welcome once again this is "prime news." we begin with breaking news on quickly becoming a house of death in cleveland, ohio. right now, our local reports of two more bodies found, that puts us to eight so far at the home of a convicted rapist. there could be more. aga again, he was released from
prison four years ago and neighbors say the home wreaked for years. we're awaiting a news conference and will bring it to you when it happens. we'll take your calls, questions, theories at 1-877-tell-hln. let's bring in our expert panel joining us steve rogers detective lieutenant nutley, new jersey police department. also nicole debord, former prosecutor and mark fuentes reporter for the "cleveland plain dealer" at the scene. tell us what went down today? >> in the last hour or so or two hours police have recovered the remains of two bodies from his backyard. they set up a big heated tent to cover the backyard and looks like they will dig all night long and sources say they will tear apart the house inside looking for more evidence. >> okay. have they been looking ever since his arrest? when did the search for more bodies heat up or did they never stop, mark? >> they stopped saturday and police have secured the house since then. they came back today with
cadaver dogs heavy equipment, a backhoe and dump truck and equipment with the fire department. >> did they get new information that spurred the new search, do we know? >> absolutely. i mean, i'm assuming interviewing the suspect and something led them back here and they found two more bodies and still digging. >> be specific, mark, they found the bodies in a backyard or in the home again, do we know where the bodies --? >> it looks like in the backyard. they covered it with giant tarps so nobody could see but the van is backing up to the backyard and no garage back there so they are going past the back door, in the backyard. you know, probably more throughout the city probably going back years so that's still to be seen. >> mark, let me ask you one more then i'll get steve in on. this mark, do we think there could be more bodies, could the number go beyond eight? >> well sources outs here on the scene say, you know, it's a possibility but, you know, until
we get actual numbers we are not going to report that but also was just charged with five counts on aggravated murder for five jane does. >> okay. wow. steve, do you think more bodies will be recovered here? >> i believe so, mike. in fact, i can tell you this, police departments across this country are now going to be opening up their cold case files and missing person reports. my concern is, is this the only location. this guy's been out for four years. we've got to find out where he's traveled to and if there's been any murders or missing people in areas that he had visited over the past four years. >> back to mark on that front. mark, are other properties being searched, places where -- >> yes. >> okay. where? >> they've been searching abandoned houses in this neighborhood the last couple of days and still out here doing it today going through abandoned buildings and houses and doing that actively. >> has he only lived in this home over the past four years, mark? >> according -- since he was released from prison in '05 according to every time he registered with the sheriff's office on the registry, he
listed his address and it's come up good when they've done their spot checks. >> nicole, we could -- we could have a serial killer on our hands here someone convicted, again of a brutal rape in 1989, served 15 years and gets out and went right back to work doing these heinous crimes. the way it's looking, isn't it. >> absolutely. it is unbelievable. they have their work cut out for them trying to identify these women and closing out these files and determining which missing women are in this person's backyard. they have quite a lot of work to do in terms of trying to find out the cause of death for these people. it's amazing to me, too, by the way as a side note this person was a registered sex offender potentially somebody couldn't have come to this address and checked and neighbors reported this stench of death, at least 15 feet from the door somebody didn't notice this earlier. unbelievable. >> but neighbors didn't know what the odor was from because there was a sausage stop nextdoor and most people thought
that overpowered everything and they assumed that's what it was. there were reports of sewer lines replaced and flushed and nobody knew what the smell was. >> mark, what are neighbors saying, what are -- are family members coming forward of those women that have been missing from that area? are they at the scene now? >> well, no. the last two days when this occurred over the weekend, they were here passing out pictures of missing relatives and loved ones and haven't showed back up passing pictures out but is attracting a ton of attention in bystanders. >> okay. we'll take a quick break on this and have more we'll take your calls, comments, questions, your theories on this. the number 1-877-tell-hln.
something in my heart is telling me that my sister is one of the victims. i don't want it to be true. i pray and i cry and i pray and i cry and i talk to someone. and i miss her, i just miss her. >> an emotional sister we had a chance to talk to it that woman yesterday. there are other families right now grappling with the same emotions. hoping against hope that a loved one or relative is not among the eight that have been found dead in the home of a convicted rapist, a man by the name of anthony sowell. we have our experts standing by we'll take your calls, questions, theories. 1-877-tell-hln is the number. back to mark puente, reporter at the scene as these bodies have been recovered and the excavation continues. so, mark, let's clarify here we talked briefly about it moments ago about the number of women
from that area who have gone missing and they've been missing weeks and months, correct, is that number eight, mark? >> well, we don't know what the number is. about 8 to 10 people have come forward saying relatives are missing but not all from this it neighborhood, some from a couple miles away but appears to be more than eight missing women in cleveland. >> steve, what's the likelihood there could be victims from other parts of the city or do you think this guy maybe wasn't mobile and the victims he was able to lure into his home? >> well, it's very likely he was mobile. i understand, mike, and i don't know if this is fact but i understand he did have a computer and he was making some contact via computer. so, if that's the case he had to set up points where he would meet people or lured them to the home. my guess, is based on my experience this might become a widespread investigation. these victims may be found well beyond the two or three or four-block area. >> what you're talking about is a report we saw, as well, steve, a month after his release in
prison in june 2005, he's scurrying around on sex fetish websites and set himself up as a master looking for a sub missive victim. nicole, a lot of people hear that and go, wait a minute, can't we monitor a brutal rapist better than that? he could just jump on a website, begin to do his dirty work again that quickly? >> absolutely. i mean, these people are supposed to have certain conditions as part of their parole oftentimes. if he was released from prison it is possible he didn't serve his entire sentence and was on parole, i don't know that for a fact. >> if i can jump in, he served his entire 15 years, he was not on parole or probation. the only monitoring requirement the sheriff's office had to verify his address and it was verified. >> therethan lies the problem once a person has served their entire sentence the state can't do much to monitor their activities in private, unfortunately. they can say you have to be a
registered sex offender and report exactly where you live so we can follow up to make sure you are there but that's really all the states can do. >> mark. you are very good jumping in there because a lot of us we're not in the cleveland area or not sure about. we hear the smet of death and think why didn't somebody say anything. so a so you sage shop. >> correct. >> they took the heat for all. they thought it was them. >> right. everybody assumed the smell came from them. we talked to the owner yesterday. she was offended and said her food doesn't smell like that. it smells like, you know, bacon being cooked, in business 57 years and wasn't theirs. she said when she opened the second story window in her building, the smell overtook the building. they didn't know what it was. >> wow. this guy's innocent until proven guilty but that's the perfect cover, obviously. when you have a sausage factory shop right next to you, that some folks had blamed for this. we'll continue to follow this. mark, steve, nicole, we thank you for your time. thanks for the update. coming up a seventh suspect arrested in the gang rape of a
the seventh suspect, a swa s.w.a.t. team arrested him this morning. his name has not been released. a crowd of teens, as many as 20, could be more watched, did nothing didn't even pull out a cell phone to call 911. if they pulled out a cell phone some, were taking pictures. not one, again called police. left the 15-year-old unconscious under a bench. just sick. as we try and grapple with this one. we'll take your calls 1-877-tell-hln welcome back steve rogers also with us gill pert pete, senior case manager with a group that steers at-risk kids into work and education programs and also kevin fagan from the "san francisco chronicle." starting with you. seventh arrest. what went down am s.w.a.t. team nailed this guy, huh? >> yeah, around 6:30 a.m.
they just released his name elvis torrentas, 21 years old they say one of many people there that night, about 20 people watched while about 10 people performed the rape. >> look at those numbers just so heart breaking. kevin staying with you, are authorities giving you the idea is the information coming forward or are students and neighborhood who may have seen something reluctant, fearful to talk? >> well, there's a little fear, yeah. there are threats made, vague threats made to some of the kids who are trying to it find out what happened and some of the kids who have talked. the police don't want to release intimate details of what happened because they need that as evidence as they go after these guys. so, it's a little bit of a chore to find out exactly what went on and how and there's only so much we want to put in the paper anyway because we want to respect the victim, sure. >> good point. one thing we want to know the numbers, seven arrests now, kevin, do we expect more, are you getting any yitd from authorities?
>> you can pretty much bet on more, yeah. yeah. they've got a list they're working with and the list includes at least a dozen people and up to 30. >> up to -- wow. >> the kids that have been pulled in are talking and the older ones are being squeezed so they have a pretty good idea who they are looking forward to track them down. >> how is the victim, kevin? >> she's okay, all things considered. she came out of the hospital last week and her parents issued a very moving statement over the weekend saying that they hoped that something productive could come out of the discussions around this thing. her parents seem to be fine people, by all accounts that i've heard. none of us has, you know, none of us wants to swarm the poor victim's house. you know, she's in recovery right now. >> let's pick up on that point, gill pert. the parents want something productive. how can something productive come out of this? what can we teach kids out of this? is a forum going to really help? we have to get down and dirty
with these kids about what happened here. >> first of all, we are working with the service providers in the school, placed in the school system before this location before the incident took place. and the services are being funneled through those organizations because they are the organizations that were at point and we're looking to bring in a variety of services that can address some is of the issues the young people are facing. because these are learned behaviors that we're talking about that were displayed in this incident. >> wow. that's a heart-breaking statement right there, learned behaviors. >> yes. these are not behaviors that just popped up in this one incidents. somewhere along the line, these young people learned that this type of behavior was okay. >> what are regoing to tell them and the best forum to tell them on a number of fronts, obviously it's so hard to fathom kids brutalizing kids, some suspects are as young as 15 and this girl was 15. >> uh-huh. yes. >> you've got that front and also this snow snitching garbage kids won't come forward.
i mean, we've got our work cut out for us, don't we, gilbert? >> yes, we do. an ongoing process, a step-by-step process where the organizations -- the community-based organizations functioning in richmond have to pull their resources together so it spreads wider than richmond high at this point it is a much larger issue not taking anything away from this young lady. >> no. >> she has to go through her healing process because this is a very sensitive issue she's facing with the role the media is playing and the young folks with their cell phones and passing this around, a lot of healing has to take place with herself in her home and family and the school system. >> you would imagine the healing process is going to take longer when, you know, when you realize that some watched. >> yes. >> and reveled in it. and didn't say a word. let's get steve rogers in on
this. steve, how do you assure, you know, some student that may have seen something, it's okay, you are going to be safe if you come forward and tell us what you saw this horrific night? >> well, i've got to tell you, with individuals like gilbert the help he gives police departments is very valuable. as a community, not just the police but we've got the schools, we've got parents and a community that has to convince these young people that they will be taken care of. but, mike, as gilbert said, we've got to bring two words back into the vocabulary of this society, accountability and responsibility. it's going to have to begin at a young age. as gill pert said this is a learned behavior. we have to unlearn that, if you will, and teach accountability and responsibility and that will help us go a long way. >> well put, steve. steve, gilbert, kevin we appreciate it guys thank you so much. >> thank you. >> coming up an iraqi dad accused of running over his 20-year-old daughter. she has died. an honor killing is what we have. c
welcome back to "prime news" on hln. continuing our conversation, a 20-year-old woman run down by her own father and the father is basically admitting, at least reportedly admitting, this was an honor killing. he's been arrested and those charges will be upgraded. she has just died. mariana from delaware go, ahead. >> caller: hi. 16 years ago today, i was with my son, who took his last breath to leukemia, a cancer that killed him. and this father, who says that this is an honor killing,
whoever his god is, whether it's allah or whether it's god or whoever forbids killing. he shamed her -- i mean she shamed him? he should hang his head in shame because he had a daughter that god gave him to take care of and to protect. and whatever she decided to do at the age of 18, she was able to do. how dare he come to america and violate our laws, run her over and let her suffer like she suffered and then she dies? they should do to him what he did to her. >> thank you for your call. we're sorry for your loss. it must be a difficult day 16 years later, as well. let's bring back to jose miguel who talked to the victim's brother. was there any sympathy for his sister in the conversation you had with him, jose. >> he actually did express sympathy after seeing her in
that hospital bed. he said for a while he was very upset with his sister because of the way she was treating the family and, for him, it just kind of all hit him all at once whence he saw his sister laying in that hospital bed unconscious. that's when his heart, he said, was breaking pretty much. >> and was it the -- her leaving the marriage and coming here and living with a boyfriend in arizona, is that what sent the father over the edge, did you get that from the brother? >> that was the impression i was getting. i was trying to get to the point with the brother as to what could have possibly led this dad to commit such a heinous act, if you will. >> right. >> and he just said that he was just under the impression that that level of disrespect was what did it. >> okay. >> he was not thinking that his father had planned this. he just felt like his father had gotten to the point where he just really snapped. >> let's bring in -- author of "standing alone in mecca" is
that the ultimate shame if that's what she did, if she left a marriage in iraq to come live with someone in arizona? >> it can be a shame. and, you know, i don't know if this is happening to all the other viewers but just watching your segments right now from the rapes in ohio to the rape in california to this murder, to me the common theme is one in which women's bodies are biscly this battleground for power and control. and, in this case, you know, for this father, he has basically absorbed an interpretation of the religion of islam and his culture that tell him that he has the authority to take his daughter's life if she shames the family, because, in his -- in his society, in his mind-set, the currency is honor. and that is then what he wanted to restore by taking his daughter's life. and it's very sad. >> it is. sara, to your point, a difficult day in this newscast, a
difficult show. but, we bring the stories to the table, what's going on in our world. let me read this facebook comment you to and get your take from casey writing this. if you don't want your children to become americanized, don't move them to america, teens and young adults are especially influenced by their peer environment. he couldn't have expected much different. what do you make of that statement there in the sense, i mean, did this father not expect her to become somewhat westernized? what is the tipping point to where he becomes so enraged -- >> right. >> -- that this could happen. >> well, when i heard about this daughter's death, i remembered back to this moment when i was sitting in my mosque in morgantown, west virginia, you know, the heartland of america and there was a man who was standing there, a professor of engineering and he had downloaded a sermon from saudi arabia that said that the west is on a dark path. and some months later, it was his son who then rammed his daughter's car because they disapproved of the boy that she
was dating. and so, he had made that journey from their native egypt but had such a disconnect with the world around him and the pulpits of our faith, sadly, have not armed him with compassion and kindness and wisdom and that's where i believe we've failed in our community, because we don't give the parents, then, the time of compassion and wisdom that they can allow their children to make mistakes, to stumble on their own as they wish but, rather, they do carry this idea that the west is dark and that we cannot be a part of it. and to me, that's not islam, either. >> and you just -- i think we can all agree in a sense like this, an 18-year-old who maybe got married and then is going to live with someone, we want wisdom and compassion. your heart breaks for the decisions a child makes but you certainly want to walk with them through that journey until they make hopefully better decisions. this one is just tough to come to grips with, as we watch this
tragedy unfold and you see such a beautiful girl and her life taken, so short. >> you know, her name means "light" -- and her death, these rapes from, you know, ohio to california, what do they represent but like the darkest expression of society. and i agree completely with all those people who believe that, you know, it's incumbent on us then to try to raise our kids, our boys, our men with some kind of wisdom so that this battleground cannot exist on women's bodies. >> well put. well put. we have to leave it there, asra, tam remarks jose, thank you so much for your time. coming up, one that's equally disturbing and we're talking about a 15-year-old girl accused of killing a 9-year-old. how do we come to that place? stay with us.
welcome back. small town overwhelmed at this hour with shock and horror a 9-year-old girl found dead in the woods. little elizabeth olton's body a stone's throw from her house outside of st. martin's, missouri. the accused, a 15-year-old playmate her best friend's older sister now charged with first degree murder but a judge will decide if she will charged as an adult or juvenile. for now we're learning about disturbing online postings one of them a profile and youtube
video. this 15-year-old her hobbies, she lists as killing and cutting. red flags all over the place, you wonder why didn't somebody see or notice. we'll get to the bottom of it. joining us to talk about it welcome back one more time steve rogers. also with us ruppa from the nancy grace show. first off, do we know what happened to little elizabeth. >> we know she disappeared, wednesday, october 21st, she went to a playmate's house, her body was found two days later in the woods buried. the sheriff has said she was killed but will not identify the way, the manner was identified as a homicide but not the way that she was murdered. >> how did they connect the dots back to this 15-year-old. >> right. they had been searching in the woods quite some time with dogs, volunteer searchers and had gotten a tip from we think it was a letter, some type of a communication, they won't say whether it's a letter, email,
maybe even a twitter posting but from somebody that knew what had happened or may -- she may have corresponded with. they led them back to the 15-year-old suspect. when they questioned and interviewed her, she led them to the body. >> okay. that's the written evidence that we've heard about. we believe, right. >> that's right. >> okay. steve, as we mentioned, the suspect claiming her hobbies killing and cutting there's a youtube video of her electrocuting herself and her little brother. how will that play into a trial, as we look back at this and see all the earmarks of something like this, she had these tendencies, will that play into a trial setting? >> oh, sure, clearly evidence the prosecutor could use but, mike, you said something very significant. when these youtube and twitter postings were up for everyone to see, why didn't someone make a phone call? i mean, when you see what we are reading about on the youtube, it's horrific. so now, i'm asking myself a question as a law enforcement officer, do we in law
enforcement now have to think about cyber policing, being pro active? we all have names of individuals in our communities who have the potential of committing such acts. mind boggling, absolutely mind boggling. >> it changes the game so much. a call in. carl from massachusetts, your thoughts here? >> caller: yeah, mike. i think there's a lot of reasons why kids are getting so violent nowadays. i think the first reason is that there's very little parental guidance because both parents have to work not like the '50s and '60s when dad wo work and mom would raise the kids, always there to give them parental guidance when they came home. they don't have that anymore. now, second thing is video games, cartoons, movies, you know, from when they're 4 years old all they see is violence, violence, violence, robots blown, violent, superheroes if something is bad, kill it, get rid of it. i think the third reason is people have to start going back
and attend their houses of worship whether jewish or christian or whatever. you know, they've got to go back to the ten commandments. the only, you know, that's the -- >> a moral base, yeah, you make a good point, carl. thanks for the phone call. steve, we are seeing some of that. the video games and movies, they leave a mark. we can't solely blame them. but, they are somewhat dezenstizing our kids but number one point what carl talked about parents being there to help monitor and be part of their kids' lives? >> absolutely. many of the investigations i'm involved with, mike, parents are in denial. they absolutely refuse to believe their children could commit certain acts of violence against others. so, we have to do a lot better in our society regarding parenting and, again, accountability, responsibility. these are two words missing in the vocabulary and we have to get back to those words. >> okay. when we come back, we'll ask rupa if the parents of the accused are making any statements now what we know
welcome back to "prime news" on hln. we are all horrified when a 15-year-old girl is accused of killing a 9-year-old girl. we have our experts standing by. to rupa -- produce fromty nancy grace show. we posed that question. the home life for the accused, the 15-year-old, are the parents making a statement, anything at all? . >> the parents have said nothing from what we know, mike, the parents aren't involved in these children's lives, the 15-year-old suspect's life. she is being raised by other relatives. >> so that's what we have on that front. i'm sure we'll continue to dig and get more information on this. again a horrific story. rupa and steve, thank you. new revelations in the late
anna nicole smith just coming out in court. you may recognize video of anna nicole pregnant and in clown face but until now we only saw a small portion that was played in court. let's go back to that. >> this is worth money. >> why? what footage? >> this thing you are looking into. >> it's a camera . >> that was howard k. stern saying this footage could be worth money. prosecutors are releasing more of the 45-minute video to show her partner, boyfriend as i mentioned howard k. stern kept her in a drug-induced stupor but his attorney says anna nicole smith was just acting. we'll play a little bit more and you can decide for yourself. call in, the number 1-877-tell-hln. joining us again tamara holder defense attorney and also with us carlos diaz, correspondents
at "xtra" and also -- all right, tamara starting with you, what's the prosecution's game plan with this, showing this video? again, this is a pregnant woman seen in this state. what's their end game here? >> well, you know, i think that the judge actually ruled against allowing them to bring it into evidence. i looked up just recently and i think i saw that. and the reason why is because, first of all, it's really prejudicial. i've seen the video. it's disturbing. it's sickening but also very is prejudicial to the three defendants in this case. the other thing is, you can't really prove that anna nicole is -- was under the influence. of course, it looks like she s. i think she is. but, if you're in court. it's a lot different. we don't have video of her, you know, ingesting pills or anything like that. when you are in the court of law it's a lot different than when we are trying the case on tv or youtube or whatever.
>> let's go. >> the other thing is -- sorry. >> carlos, what do you know about this video going in or out of the trial, do we know a definite ruling or not. >> the ruling is that it is admissible but not going to be shown in court so the -- the jury will not see it or shown in court but the thing is whenever i talk about howard k. stern i've gotten phone calls from him in the past reminding me that, you know, from his own mouth that he's not a celebrity. that i have no right to talk ill of him. so, howard, if you want to call me now, i want to know one thing, what do you mean when you say on the tape that this tape is worth money? and what do you mean when you say is this another mushroom trip to, anna nicole. why in the world would you tape someone in this situation and why does it take a 9-year-old girl to tell you to put the camera down and stop taping because anna nicole is obviously having brain issues? >> and let's watch. this is some of the newer stuff. carlos, you set this up nicely. what we have is a 9-year-old in the midst of this going back and
forthwith anna nicole smith trying to convince her that she is pregnant. the 9-year-old is the same one in the midst of this. let's watch. sane one. yep. >> i want to go. >> you can't. >> why not? >> because of your baby. >> my baby is over there sleeping. >> your other baby. >> your baby down there. >> your baby down here. >> that one. >> i think i just have a little gas. >> say it again. >> i think i'm having some gas trouble. >> oh, okay. so again, this is disturbing on so many levels here. a 9-year-old is exposed to this. anna nicole smith is pregnant but saying the pregnancy is gas and the baby is a doll that was about ten feet away. carlos, how can howard k. stern
explain this away? >> his explanation could be anna nicole is acting and this is one big act. that is what they are saying. his attorneys are saying a portion shows that anna nicole smith was acting throughout this. she is acting. she is not in a drug induced st stupor but when she looks this way and you are saying say it again and instructing the 9-year-old to get the doll which she thinks is a baby and instructing someone on specific instructions on what to use and whatnot to use, that goes to show you are possibly taking advantage of anna nicole smith. howard k. stern i want to give you the benefit of the doubt but this does not look good. >> we will talk to our expert and take your calls at 1-877-tell-hln.
a press conference is underway in cleveland as we now have eight bodies found at the home of a convicted rapist, a man by the name of anthony sowell. let's listen. >> i want to say we will bring this to closure as quickly as we can but in a way that is professional and that meets legal standards. and that the police department and our partners have done a great job so far in this and we will continue to be very methodical about our approach to this. the chief has some information he would like to share with you.
>> thanks, mayor. like i said on saturday, we will continue to give you the information as we obtained it an verified it. today our homicide unit and the county coroner's office went back to the scene which has been secured since day one. during the course of their investigation throughout the day we have discovered four more bodies in the back yard and a skull in a bucket in the basement. now, these bodies that we discovered in the back yard, it is tentative right now, it is not confirmed until they are transported to the coroner's office and dr. miller will make that confirmation. also today the suspect anthony sowell, approximately 4:00 this afternoon was charged with five counts of aggravated murders on john does right now, rape, kidnapping and felonious assault on the initiate complaint that led us to that house a few days ago.
we will continue our investigation throughout the night and tomorrow and tomorrow we will bring in the fire department and check walls, floors, et cetera in that particular residence. with cooperation of the building and housing department we checked all abandoned structures that were opened a quarter mile area around that particular residence. they were checked with negative results. tomorrow we will expand that search another quarter mile. we will continue this investigation until it is completed. >> are you looking at other places, before he was in prison or when he was in the military? >> we know when he was discharged in the summer of 2005 he was discharged to that address on imperial. we are focused on that particular address right now. we did the quarter mile and now we will do another quarter mile after that tomorrow. as we receive additional intelligence on his whereabouts we will continue his investigations at those
locations. we do know the suspect did not have transportation. if he went any place he used to have to take the bus. >> mr. sowell cooperating with your investigation? are you receiving information? >> at this point he has requested an attorney. >> can you tell us exactly where you found these new remains and the skull, a little more detail how you were able to find those and what kind of excavation is going on at the scene. >> what happened today when we went back to continue our investigation we went some cadaver dogs with us. they weren't successful because of the wind. but we had a backhoe and we continued to dig it up, to make sure we covered all our bases. as we were doing that we discovered four more bodies in the back yard. i cannot say where specifically because i am not on location. the dig continues. we are not finished. >> can you describe the circumstances around finding the skull. >> the skull was discovered
wrapped in a paper bag in a bucket in the basement. during the course, the research of the house today by homicide investigators and people from our siu unit. >> were there other decapitations. >> up to this point i have no information on any decapitations. >> were there other instances where body parts were separated. >> no, sir. not to my knowledge. everything that has been confirmed by dr. miller. remember, dr. miller has confirmed six victims up to this point. six. all six were females and five died by strangulation. the additional bodies, what appear to be bodies today will have to be confirmed by dr. miller's office tomorrow morning at which time we'll have a better idea as far as gender, et cetera. >> the way the bodies were found in the area, have you any reason to believe there was something more than a disposal process,
maybe there was ritual or bodies were moved from one place to another? anything at all? >> nothing beyond disposal at this point. it appears this man had a insatiable appetite he had to fill. everything is right there at that location. >> chief, many people in the neighborhood have called our station. a lot of people were asking kind of obvious question and that is how did this go on for so long without the police department getting more involved? how do you explain? >> well, the way i explain that initially right now is the fact that we will not know until we identify the victims and understand their way of life. how they existed in the community. so it is hard for us -- i would not be surprised, it would not
surprise me if some victims had a missing person report. until we know who these victims are, how they lived their lives, we need that information, that intelligence before i can articulate a response to that question. >> there were complaints from neighbors of a smell, of odd behavior. congregating of people outside the home. do you feel that the police department in some way has dropped the ball on this? >> let me say this. at that address over the last three years including the call we just had on october 20th, there was only one other call to that address concerning a police issue. it was a domestic violence call, i believe it was in 2007. i also know that when this gentleman was discharged from the penitentiary he was labeled
a sexual predator and that the county sheriff's department checked on him on a regular basis and checked on him on september 22nd of this year to confirm his address and he was living there. i also know that we did not have information concerning these smells, et cetera. so as far as the police dropping the ball, i wouldn't say we dropped the ball. we were vigilant in what we did. when we did have the right information we proceeded to investigate it and continued our investigation. >> you are suggesting perhaps the sheriff's department -- >> no. i'm not suggesting anything. i'm just saying this gentleman and the scenarios around all these victims until we know how they lived their lives, it makes it very difficult for us to come up with answers to your questions. i have to believe at this point all these victims voluntarily went to this residence.
>> the october 20th incident, where a naked woman fell out the window, he came out naked, fire department was called, ems was called. it was only ten days, should more have been done to check him out or investigate further she didn't just fall out the window. what is your feeling about the way the october 20th call was handled? >> we are investigating that call. what i know initially, there were two calls that came into dispatch. one was for the female falling out the window. the fire department responded and got there in about five minutes. the initial call was for fire/ems. it wasn't a police call. fire department went there. ems arrived. they assisted the victim into their wagon. fire department interviewed mr. sowell inside his residence. they transported the victim and i believe mr. sowell in the
wagon to the hospital and the fire department just felt uneasy about it. it was at that time they called the police department. the police department responded in three minutes. everybody had left the scene so they in turn responded to metro hospital. where they interviewed the victim who was in an x-ray room or a c.a.t. scan room and she stated she was in the house, she was partying, doing coke, drugs, getting high. she was out on the balcony and she dropped her keys. when she went to pick them up she fell. they were told her boyfriend was in the lobby. that was mr. sowell. he came up with the story. we were partying all day, missed her keys, went off the roof. that is why we are here. they contacted their supervisor, related that information and at that point they made it accidental injury. >> shouldn't they have checked
him out, this guy is a sex offender or is that too much to expect a routine call but a call that -- for a police department as busy as yours? >> the officers that responded to the scene at the hospital were very diligent. they actually did a very good job. they interviewed the staff at the hospital, the victim and who came to the hospital with the victim. all the stories checked out. there wasn't any inclination he was a sexual predator that lured her into the house. they followed proper procedure and contacted their supervisor. as far as i'm concerned they did the right thing. at any point that gal could have said, hey, wait a minute, but she did not. >> does your department have any reports onhand of missing women from that immediate area? >> sir, what we've been doing over the last three days, we have a dedicated team of detectives going over all our missing person reports, cross
referencing those reports with locations. not just there on imperial but throughout the city. so that is continuing, that particular part of it. the missing person report and will continue. >> what needs to take place for identity? can you give us a time frame? is it something you want to get all the identities before you release one? can you talk about procedurproc. >> the most important is you want to be able to identify the victim and contact her relatives before anybody else knows. that is the respectable thing to do. because of the state of these bodies and this is a dr. miller question, they have to do dna to identify and compare it to something. that takes a bit of a timeline. there is some time involved. that is where we're at now. we know we have the six initial victims, females, we have the dna. we received some dna from the neighborhood and now they have to do that comparison before they can confirm if, in fact, this is the victim, name,
address, relatives, et cetera. but the most important thing is we have to do is once we do identify the victims we have to contact the doctor, dr. miller, will contact the families first and notify them of the tragedies. >> why did you wait to go back to the house and start your investigation? over a period of a couple of days since you have been out there. why did you wait? >> actually, we did not wait. as soon as the incident took place and a s.w.a.t. unit made entry and discovered the two decomposed bodies on the third floor we secured the location. now officers and representatives from the coroner's office can only work "x" number of hours per day. they have to take relief, readjust and plan. that was always -- that scene was always secured for our investigation. we did it friday, saturday,
sunday we had our command bus out there trying to get information from the neighborhood. we went back again monday and started on it again. plus we were trying to talk to the suspect at this process. at no time did we ever leave the scene. there was police personnel on point to make sure everything is secure. >> one more question. >> all right. there you have it. you have been listening to cleveland police chief michael mcgrath. we newcombing into today six bodies had been found at the home of a convicted rapist anthony sowell. this morning four more bodies were found. we are up to ten. there is gruesome stuff. a skull was found in the basement. could that mean 11? we are not sure yet. it sounds like at this point ten bodies found at the home of convicted rapist anthony sowell. the dig continues as they search for more victims.
michelle sigona, investigative journalist. let's start with you on this. a lot happening today as they have to continue digging now and we talked yesterday and that was up with of the questions, could there be more bodies. obviously, that answer is yes. >> that answer is yes. this case is unbelievable. i cannot believe there were ten bodies inside of this house for such possibly a long period of time. when i talked to the coroner's office from days to weeks to months. ten bodies have been pulled out. we know anthony sowell has been charged with five counts of aggravated murder and that could possibly rise as investigators continue to go through these bodies and be able to collect information from them and also to be able to figure out where these women from and if they are, in fact, missing women reported from the community. yesterday we spoke about the possibility of there being eight women missing.
so we are at a body count of ten. he is only charged with five counts of aggravated murder as of today. this man you are seeing on your screen, he served time in the military and i did confirm this with the united states marine corps. he served from july of 1977 and he was released in january of 1985. this is someone who served our country, someone who is a convicted sex offender, someone who spent 15 years behind bars for a rape. >> we will take a quick break. more from our experts and we'll take your calls. ten bodies found in the home of a convicted rapist. stay with us.
welcome back to "prime news" on hln. ten bodies found in the home of convicted rapist anthony sowell. a skull was found in the basement. there could be 11. the search continues meaning there could be more. we have our experts standing by. nicole debord, former sex crimes prosecutor, so many so angry when we hear the story of a man convicted of a brutal rain in 1989, served his 15 years, how is he not monitored to the point where this could be prevented because we are talking about a serial killer. >> absolutely. the best thing states could do is follow up on the sex offender
registration. it sounds like they were. it is baffling to me how you can have eight plus, now we hear ten dead bodies actually rotting in that house and not have people do more investigation into the cause of these problems. certainly better monitoring would have helped in this case. >> michelle, you said you talked to authorities there. >> i have. >> he has been out since june of 2005, when did this killing begin. >> no problem. thanks so much. >> that is a great question. what has happened here is when he got out in june, 2005, anthony sowell was required to check in with the sheriff's department once a year during that time. it wasn't until recently he had to start checking in every 90 days. when sheriff's deputies went to his residence on september 22nd of this year that was a random spot check. they went out there randomly, he
answered the door, yes, okay, anthony is living at this address and that is when they moved on. i have a timeline at michellesigona.com. in addition to that information i want to mention i did speak with councilman zach reed from cleveland and he says his office reported the stench back in 2007 to the health department. so then i picked up the phone and i talked to the director of the health department matt carroll. matt carroll says unfortunately he did not receive that complaint. they get about 20,000 complaints. in 2008 a neighbor one block over put in another complaint. >> let's get steve rogers in on this. did i get that correctly, once a year he was checked. >> just once a year. that september 22nd was a random spot check. >> steve, that is not enough for a man who committed a crime like he did, brutal rape, once a year. >> it isn't, mike.
the chief of police was very informative, very thorough in answering those questions. i'm sure he would agree once is not enough. i will give you a shocker, what the police may be looking for is the possibility of videotapes. it is not uncommon some killers videotape these massacres, if you will. during the process of gathering evidence i'm sure the police are looking for possibly videotapes. >> shudder to think of that. michelle we've got about 20 seconds. they are not going leave that property. they are going to have a thorough excavation, i'm sure. the clock is ticking on us, you probably won't answer this but it sounds like they will continue a larger swath? >> tomorrow they go back out. >> we've got to run. much. more news coming up. stay with us.
welcome back to "prime news" on hln. a 20-year-old woman run down by her own father. the father is basically admitting, at least reportedly admitting this was an honor killing. he has been arrested. those charges will be upgraded because she has just died. taking your calls. mariana, go ahead. >> caller: 16 years ago i was with my son who took his last breath to leukemia, a cancer that killed him. this father who says that this is an honor killing whoever his
god is, whether it is allah or god, forbids killing. she samed him? he should hang his head in shame. he had a daughter god gave him to take care of and protect. whatever she decided to do at the age of 18, she was able to do. how dare he come to america and violate our laws, run her over and let her suffer like she suffered and then she dies. they should do to him what he did to her. >> mariana, thank you for your call. we are sorry for your loss. it must be difficult 16 years later as well. let's bring back jose miguel. is there any sympathy for the sister? >> he did express sympathy after seeing her in that hospital bed. he said for a while he was very
upset with his sister because of the way she was treating the family. for him it all hit him all at once once he saw his sister laying in the hospital bed unconscious. he said that is when his heart was breaking. >> was it her leaving the marriage and coming to live with the boyfriend in america that sent the father over the snedge? >> i was trying to get to the point with the brother what could have led the dad to commit such a heinous act, if you will. he was under the pressure that level of disrespect was what did it. he was not thinking his father had planned this. he just felt like his father had got on the the point where he really snapped. >> let's bring in asra nomani,
asra, is that the ultimate shame, if she left a marriage in iraq to come live with someone in arizona. >> it can be a shame. i don't know if this is happening to the other viewers but watching the segments from the rape in ohio to the rape in california and this murder, this is a common theme where women's bodies are a battleground for power and control. in this case, for this father, he has basically absorbed and interpretation of the religion of islam and his culture that tell him he has the authority to take his daughter's life if she shames the family because in his society, in his mindset the currency is honor and that is then what he wanted to restore by taking his daughter's life and it is very sad. >> asra, this is a difficult day. it is a difficult show.
we bring the stories to table what is going on in our world. let me read this facebook comment. this is from casey writing this, if you don't want your children to become americanized don't move them to america. teens and young adults are influenced by their peer environment. he couldn't have expected much different. what do you make of that statement? did this father not expect her to become westernized? what is the tipping point he becomes so enraged this could happen? >> right. when i heard about this daughter's death i remembered back to this moment when i was sitting in my mosque in morgantown, west virginia, the heartland of america, a man downloaded a sermon from saudi arabia that said the west is on a dark path. and some months later it was his son who rammed his daughter's car because they disapproved of the boy she was dating.
and so he had made that journey from their native egypt, but had such a disconnect with the world around him. the pulpits of our faith sadly had not armed him with compassion and kindness and wisdom. that is where i believe we failed in our community. we don't give the parents then the type of compassion and wisdom that they can allow their children to make mistakes, to stumble on their own as they wish, but rather they do carry this idea that the west is dark and that we cannot be a part of it. to me, that is not islam either. >> you just -- i think we can all agree in a sense like this, an 18-year-old who maybe got married and is going to live with someone, we want wisdom and compassion. your heartbreaks for the decisions a child makes but you want to walk with them until they make hopefully better decisions. >> yeah. >> this is tough to come to
grips with as you see such a beautiful girl her life taken. >> her name means light. her death, these rapes from ohio to california, what do they represent but the darkest expression of society. i agree completely with those people who believe it is incumbent on us to try to raise our kids, our boys, our men with some kind of wisdom so this battle ground cannot exist on women's bodies. >> well put. >> we have to leave it there. asra, tamara, jose, thank you for your time. one that is equally disturbing. we are talking about a 15-year-old girl accused of killing a 9-year-old. how do we come to that place?
welcome back. small town overwhelmed with shock and horror. a 9-year-old girl found dead in the woods. elizabeth olton's body was a stone's throw from her house. the accused a 15-year-old playmate. her best friend's older sister. the teen is charged with first-degree murder. but a judge will soon decide if she will be charged as an adult or juvenile. we are learning about disturbing online postings, one is a
profile and youtube video. the 15-year-old, her hobbies she lists as killing and cutting. red flags all over the place. why didn't someone notice? joining us, welcome back steve rogers, detective lieutenant nuttily, new jersey. >> also with us rupa, producer for the nancy grace show. do we know what happened? >> she disappeared wednesday, october 21st. her body was found two days later in the woods buried. the sheriff said she was killed but not identify the way. the manner was homicide, but not the way she was murdered. >> how did they connect the dots back to this 15-year-old? >> they had been searching in the woods with dogs, volunteer searchers. they had gotten a tip from a -- we think it was a letter, some type of a communication, they don't say if it was a letter, e-mail, maybe a twitter posting,
but somebody who knew what had happened. that led them back to the 15-year-old suspect. when they questioned her she led them to the body. >> that is the written evidence, right? >> that's right. the suspect claiming her hobby is killing and cutting. there is a youtube video of her electrocuting herself and her little brother. how will that play into a trial looking back at these tendencies? will that play into a trial setting? >> sure. that can be evidence the prosecutor can use. you said something significant. when these youtube and twitter postings were up for everyone to see why didn't someone make a phone call. when you see what we are reading about on the youtube it is horrific. i'm asking myself as a question as a law enforcement officer. do we in law enforcement have to
think about cyberpolicing? being proactive? we have names of individuals in our communities who have the potential of committing such acts. mind boggling. >> it changes the game. karl is with us in massachusetts. your thoughts here? >> caller: yeah. i think there are a lot of reasons kids are getting so violent nowadays. there is very little parental guidance. both parents have to work not like the '50s and '60s when dad would work and mom was there to raise the kids. they don't have that anymore. second thing is video games, cartoons, movies. from when they are 4 years old all they see is violence, violence, violence, robots blown, violence, if something is bad you kill it. boom. get rid of it. people have to start attending
their houses of worship, jewish or christian or whatever. they have to go back to the ten commandments. that is the moral -- >> the moral base. you make a good point, karl. thanks for the phone call. steve, we are seeing some of that. the video games and the movies, they leave a mark. we can't solely blame them but they are somewhat desensitizing our kids. number one is parents, don't you think, being there to monitor. >> many of the investigations i'm involved with parents are in denial. they refuse to believe their children commit acts of violence against others. we have to do better in our society with parenting. accountability. responsibility. these are two words missing in the vocabulary. coming up, anna nicole smith, disturbing new video of her in clown face. she is pregnant and she's being
welcome back to "prime news" on hln. new revelations on the late anna nicole smith. you may recognize the video of anna nicole pregnant in clown face. until now we only saw a small part played in court. >> i said this footage is worth money. >> why? what footage? >> the thing you're looking into. >> it's a camera. >> exactly. >> there you go. that was howard k. stern talking about the footage being worth money. prosecutors are releasing more
of the 45-minute video to try to show anna nicole smith stern who kept her in a stupor. stern's attorney says anna nicole is acting. you can call in 1-877-tell-hln. i want to bring in my friend and colleague jane velez-mitchell, host of "issues with jane velez-mitchell" coming up at the top of the hour. we can't prove it. in the footage her taking drugs. >> listen, if she was acting she was robbed because she deserved an academy award from that. the judge said i can't tell whether she is stoend or acting because it is videotape. the judge can't make that leap but the public can certainly draw its own conclusions. and one of the reasons why people wear sun glasses when they are doing drugs is to hide their eyes because the eyes give it away. when you see her eyes in this
video she is so unfocused, also what gives it away, the voice. she is slurring her words and her whole body language is loosy goosy to a point where the combined behavior points very clearly to her being stoned on something. now, that's my personal opinion. i have no proof of it. but let's face it. we're all living in this world and we can look at that video and jump to our own conclusions. >> let's watch some of the newer stuff this is a portion where anna nicole smith is going back and forth with a 9-year-old girl and howard k. stern to convince her she is pregnant and it is not gas. >> to the water park? >> yep. >> i want to go. >> you can't. >> why not? >> because your baby. >> my baby's over there sleeping. >> your other -- >> your baby down there.
>> your baby down here. >> that one. >> i think i just have a little gas. >> say that again. say it again. >> i think -- i think i'm having some gas trouble. >> that is sad when -- on so many fronts here. she is pregnant. she's in what appears to be a stupor and a 9-year-old is being exposed to that. as we watch that the 9-year-old is the voice of reason. >> absolutely. six months later anna nicole smith was dead and they found nine different meds in her system including chlorryl hydrate. this woman is very pregnant not just a little pregnant. thankfully dannielynn who is a
well rounded 3-year-old, but the risk she put her then unborn child with those drugs, this is at the heart of this case and obviously there are defendants who are accused of funneling those drugs to her. >> and heart of the case as well is the man who is doing the filming, howard k. stern. >> yeah. >> on a commonsense firm if you care one iota about anna nicole smith you put the camera down ands i get the feeling that he's mocking her. he is mocking her. well, go ahead. will any of that play in when we are talking about taking this to a court of law? >> you know he's always said when the first clips came out, oh those clips were out of context. when you see the whole thing, you can see that it really wasn't the way it looked. well, now we're seeing a lot more of it and it's looking even worse. and when he says this footage is worth money, what does that mean, right? the whole thing is just -- it gives you the creeps. it turns your stomach when you see this woman who clearly doesn't seem to be in control of
her own faculties and he's playing director down there with a 9-year-old girl. why involve a 9-year-old girl in this kind of thing, you know? and she's the only one who is showing any kind of common sense. she's the one who has concern. she keeps saying this woman needs help. essentially she's the one of voice of reason in this whole scenario. >> she turns to howard k. stern, we don't have time too play it. he turns to her and says she has brain trouble. the 9-year-old is turning to anna nicole smith and saying needs help. and no help from howard k. stern. it's just too much. jane, you've been talking about it. other stuff coming up for us. >> oh yeah a whole bunch coming up. we have the jim nance divorce, that's hot stuff. and these three women who disappeared north dakota. that's just a total horrifying mystery. >> right, three softball players. i know that you'll be covering it. jane will have "issues" coming up and more on anna nicole smith right here "prime news."
tonight, three young women vanish into thin air. a disturbing mystery sparks a desperate search for three college softball players. the coeds went star-gazing near a desolate lake and they haven't been seen since. what happened? they made two frantic phone calls to a friend. now there's no sign of them or their little dog. was this an actual disaster or something far more sinister? and lindsay lohan's downward spiral. the actress goes off on her dad. calling him a lunatic who's never been involved in his life. when said lindsay look like she was 100 years old and needed help with her drug addiction. he claims lindsay's mom will soon will o.d. and could, quote,
end up like heath ledger. is lindsay lohan playing with her life. and also inside of the mind of a sexual deviant. the halloween mad man. is speaking out from behind bars. tonight, we'll play his head-spinning comments on air. he tortured a woman for 13 hours on halloween night. now four years later he's talking to "inside edition" and you're not going to believe what he's saying. plus it's happened again. the secret life of another celebrity sportscaster expose. jim nantz perhaps the most popular sports commentator in the country, but now a nasty divorce is revealing some of his dark secrets as his 26-year marriage collapses, we now learn he had an affair with a woman two decades his junior. we'll have all the juicy details. "issues" starts now. tonight, three college students vanish along with their small dog after making hysterical calls to friends. could they be the latest victims of what we hear on "issues" call the war on women?
did these three friends suffer some kind of tragic accident or something far more sinister? 22-year-old kirstin gemar, 21-year-old ashley neufeld and 21-year-old afton williamson play softball at dickinson state university in north dakota. the frantic calls that they made to friends sunday night are among the only clues in their very mysterious disappearance. here's kristen's dad on "good morning america." >> i believe it is the nature of the fact that only half an hour after they'd left the off-campus apartment, those two emergency calls came in. they were cut off in midcall. there was nothing to indicate that there was an asilliant or anything like that going on. it just comes across of sounding more like an accident of some kind. >> well, that's the dad's belief. however, police say the caller was hysterical and mentioned being near a lake and water.
so investigators search a nearby lake. guess what they found? absolutely nothing. the women are believed to have gone star-gazing in a rural area before they disappeared. police are interviewing people as we speak who think they saw the women in a town 40 miles from campus just hours after their frantic phone calls. but why has nobody spotted the jeep they were in or the little dog that they brought with them? i want to hear from you. what's your theory on this mystery? let's welcome my awesome panel. stacey honowitz, supervisor of the sex crimes unit in the florida prosecutor's office. brenda waden, noted clinical psychologist and michelle segona. investigative reporter with michelle segona.com. all right, stacey honowitz, we were just talking to the public information officer with dickinson police department. he's going to call us back because he said something's going on. hanging up the phone. got to run. this story is developing as we speak.
let's pray it's good news. let's pray they found these girls but you've heard the basics. what does it sound like to you? >> you know what, jane, i don't have a theory in the case because there's so many different ways that you can end up looking at this. it sounds like that they were sentu know could be sinister because there was a frantic, hysterical person on the line. i don't know if they saw something you know in front of them, that it was coming towards them at the time the call was made. the father's on the phone saying he thinks it's accidental. so there are so many theories that could be out there that that's why it's so important that these leads develop and we hear all of this upcoming news you know probably minute by minute as they speak to people to find out what kind of information they might have. but right now we'd all be speculating. i couldn't tell you what the theory is in this. >> well, if i was a parent and i looked at these facts i would want to believe that it was some kind of accident. i wouldn't want to believe something more sinister. but calls to the missing woman's phone numbers are now going straight to voice mail. one of them called a friend
twice on sunday night. the first call was at 11:18 p.m. the caller asked for help. and mentioned water. the friend heard "hysterical" noises before the line went down. the second call came a minute later and lasted only 30 seconds. traced to a cell tower about five miles from campus. so michelle segown ainvestigative reporter, you've been tracking this case all day, what do you make of the phone calls? what do you know? >> well, at this particular point, what we do know is that the three girls did in fact get into a jeep grand cherokee which does belong to kirsten. this area is a place that they have traveled pretty frequently. they're on the softball team. all of the girls do spend a lot of time together. one of them actually just became a part of the university pretty recently. and the phone calls that were made to the friend, those calls for help, they were also a member of the softball team as well. i did get off of the phone earlier within the last hour
with kirsten's parents, larry and claire. en what they tell me is they are there on location in north dakota. they're from california. and all of the other girl's families are there. they were on campus today. and yesterday, yesterday afternoon, a lot of students just spontaneously just got together. they held a prayer vigil on campus. and everyone is just doing everything they can to stay positive. tomorrow, there's a lot of people coming forward who want to volunteer their time and services, which is great. but police do not want folks going out there on their own searching for these girls. they need to be with police officers and with investigators to be able to go out there. they're searching by air. they are on the ground. they're doing everything that they can to be able to try to locate these three girls tonight. >> police say there's an unconfirmed report the women were in a bar in killdeer, north dakota, two nights before they vanished. now we have a google map to show you. killdeer is about 40 miles north of the university. there are more unconfirmed
sightings in killdeer yesterday. so my question, brenda wade, psychologist, could these women have gotten in the bar and caught somebody's eye? i mean could they have told somebody about their plans to go star-gazing in a remote area? should police be interviewing everyone who was at that bar to see if some creep was lurking around and became fixiated on one of these young women? >> you know, jane, this is one of those cases where, first, i just have to send out my prayers and best wishes to the parents. i cannot imagine what they're going through. but i know at a time like this, the only thing that can get you through it is knowing that you have support and people like us all over the country, are sending good-wishes and prayers to them. now should the police interview everyone, yes, i think so because you don't know. in a bar, anybody could had been there. anyone could have seen them if they were in fact there. and we just don't know at this day and time what goes on in people's minds. there are people who are unhinged for a lot of different reasons. the economy hasn't helped. people who are close to the edge
have slid off. >> i don't know that anybody who is potentially a sinister, violent predator is impacted by the economy. you know what occurred to me as i saw this story, okay here's another thing women can't do. women can't go star-gazing at night alone without putting their lives in danger. and this is why we here on "issues" talk about the war on women and we talk about women in this country being forced to wear psychological burqas. you look at that video of women wearing burqas on the other side of the world. and you say, oh, my god, isn't that horrific? and it is horrific. but in a sense, aren't we wearing psychological burqas, stacey honowitz, when we as women can't go star-gazing, we can't go to a concert without fearing if we're separated from our friends. we could be abducted. you know there is so much happening to women disappearing left and right. we're covering it every day. it's really impacting other women psychologically about our
freedoms of doing anything. i mean i dare say it scares me. walking my dogs at night. i think about this stuff. >> well, you know, what jane, you have to think about this stuff. and we do cover it all of the time in the news and it does seem to be, you know, an attack on women. but you know we've tried and you've tried several times to say, what do we do? how do we solve this problem? what do we do about it? right now there are no answers and so the only thing that you can say is you have to watch your back. >> well, there are some answers i would like to suggest. >> what do you do? >> there are a couple of answers i would like to suggest. one, is that we as women do have to be smart, as you're already saying, stacey. but we also -- >> and not go star-gazing. >> and enroll other women as our allies and say if i want to be out tonight i want you to watch my back, let somebody know where i am. we have to create a tracking system but more than that, how about solving the problem at a higher level? >> yes. >> and looking at why our culture is as misogynistic as it
is. why we have music videos that call women names that i can't even say on the air. why do we allow that sort of thing to proliferate in our culture? i think that we need to ask these questions and teach our young people top respect women. because everybody who's on this panel -- >> well, guess what -- hold on a second. the powers out there that are making money off of violence against women are not listening. a new study by the tv council, parents council, showed the tv violence against women and girls has jumped 120%. 120%. >> my god. >> that is an obscenity. >> jane that is. >> jane, this is a really good example of three women going out together. three young women going out together. this isn't like the case that's going on right now in virginia, where it's just one girl by herself or other cases that we know. this is a group of young females. so even a group of younger females need to keep in mind that bad things can possibly happen. i mean --
>> that's what i'm saying, we as women cannot even go star-gazing, that's sad. more on this mysterious disappearance in just a bit. let's pray they are found. there is breaking news, we'll try on get in touch with them and also take your calls on this. what's your theory about this mystery, 1-877-jvm-says, that's 1-877-586-7297. lindsay lohan's destructive lifestyle. her dad thinks that she needs helps and published reports that her mom thinks that she'll end up dead. is this talented young actress really destroying her life?
we've got some very sad, breaking news to report. the associated press is telling us as we speak that these three young girls have been found dead in a vehicle that was pulled from a pond. once again, breaking news. these three beautiful young women have been found dead in a vehicle pulled from the pond according to the associated press. this is a story we've been covering, hoping and praying, that they would be found okay. they were out star-gazing on sunday night and they called -- one of them called and there was a frantic cell phone call. and then another one, just about a minute later, where they said something about water and there were hysterical noises in the background. we didn't know what happened. we were about at the start of this broadcast to do an
interview with the public information officer for the local police department. he said, got to go. hung up, ran off. and we suspected there was breaking news. and indeed, there is. michelle sigona, you've been covering this story. you've spoken to the family. >> i did. >> this is absolutely heartbreaking. >> this is heartbreaking. when i spoke with larry and claire, kyrstin's parents just within the last hour and ten minutes, i mean they were on the ground. they were very hopeful. they were -- you know, just doing whatever they possibly could to help find their girls and actually i want to read you this message. >> yes. >> this message that claire had told me. i said do you have a message for the public. and she said, kyrstin, i love you, please come home. fight for your life until you can't fight anymore. give us a sign so we can come home so you can come home on thanksgiving and please bring the other girls with you. this is a direct quote from
kyrstin's mom, claire, who is on the ground there with her husband larry and they were there you know doing their best to search for their daughter. >> well, this is the worst-case scenario -- >> it is. >> it is horrible. it really is horrible. brenda wade, a psychologist. the families have gone to the college. they're from california, canada, and other parts. and they've all converged there hoping against hope to find their precious children who disappeared sunday night after a frantic phone call and now we find out that they've been found dead in a vehicle that's been pulled from a body of water. is there any solace, is there any comfort? how do you comfort these families at a moment like this? >> you know, jane, when we are grieving, we always go into something that actually protects us, which is we go into shock. and i'm sure that these families are in shock and that's a good thing.
the nervous system just kind of shuts down. it short circuits and it's a way of keeping the terrible pain from completely overwhelming us all at once. and as the shock wears off, the pain comes in bit by bit by bit. but initially i'm sure they're in shock. we're all in shock. i mean i'm shocked to hear this terrible news. i could hear it in your voice. and at a moment like this the most important thing for all of us to do is just send out that wave of heartfelt energy. send out your love, your prayers and just bless this family with everything you've got. >> stacey honowitz, you're a sex crimes prosecutor, and i have to say in trying to always find some kind of hope out of these terrible tragedies when i hear a story like this being a reporter for so many years the first thing that runs through my mind is some horrible sadist will take these girls and torture these girls and never find out what happened. you know if there's any, if
there's any comfort it's that let's hope, god-willing, this was just a car accident, they died instantly and that their suffering was brief, if at all, and that certainly this wasn't one of these horrific cases that we -- that unfortunately you and i have spent so much time covering. and i think that we can fairly safely say that at this point. >> yeah you know, jane, it's very difficult news. and i even feel bad talking about it because it's just so new to the families and for us to be sitting here. i know it's important for the public to know but it's so private for them also. but the only thing that we can hope is that if it wasn't an accident and we don't know anything yet is that justice at some point is served and that they find somebody or the people that are responsible, if in fact you know they call it a homicide. the difficult part in this is of course knowing that there was a frantic phone call made and of course everyone starts
speculating. maybe somebody was coming towards them and they did see something. but again, my condolences go to the family and let's just hope whatever investigation comes from here, something gives us some answers. it's the only thing that i can say. >> and, stacey, i wholeheartedly agree with you. it's very uncomfortable discussing this. we were covering this story when the breaking news came in as we covered it. and again, i said that the police officer was going to talk to us and he literally said "got to go." and as soon as i heard that i felt, got to be some breaking news to hang up just so abruptly. michelle sigona, you have covered so many of these stories. your thoughts. only a few seconds. >> it's heart wrenching. my thought, prayers, go out to these families, the softball team, this university of almost 3,000 students who go there. i know that everyone's pulling together. they had that prayer vigil last night on campus and this is going to be a very difficult time for this university and we just really need to pray for them. >> and that's the most
this is just in. these three beautiful, young women, college co-eds, softball players, they've been missing since sunday. police just reporting through the associated press that they've all been found dead. pulled from a pond, northwest of dickinson, where they attended university. police say we're still investigating the cause of death. this is a worst-case scenario result for the families who have converged on this area, remote area, north dakota, where these young ladies went to dickinson
state university. again, very, very actively involved in softball. 20, 21 and 22 years of age. their names are kyrstin gemar, avknow to williamson. they had plans to go star-gazing in a remote area there in north dakota. and then the phone calls came in. the cell phone calls. one after the other. a minute apart. one with hysterical noises in the background. and some reference to water. and then the cell phones went dead. any calls to those cell phones went straight to voice mail. and now once again, we're getting this terrible news that these three young ladies are dead and we do not know the cause of death.
stacey honowitz, what do authorities do now, in terms of trying to determine the cause of death? obviously, they're going to have to look at how these women were positioned when they were pulled out. and obviously where they weref they in the vehicle the jeep cherokee that they were last seen in. if they were in that jeep cherokee and the three of them are just seated there and there was a small dog as well and they're pulled out, what happens next? toxicology tests, what? >> yeah, well what happens naturally, jane, is autopsy's performed on all three victims in this case and maybe an autopsy would be able to reveal the cause of death. also toxicology reports. i mean all of those things that you hear about when there is a death whether by homicide or suicide or accident, they have to autopsy the body and then they get results from there and hopefully that will lead toward an investigation determining what the cause of death was. >> but michelle sigona, you have covered so many of these as an investigative reporter over the years. it sounds like an accident,
doesn't it? >> it does initially, jane. and of course we will wait for those reports to come in as investigators are out there now. i am sure they are surveying the land to figure out exactly houtjeep went from the land into the water. they'll take tire marks, you know they'll do a whole array of things before they -- and after the autopsy as well and in combination with their investigation. they'll be able to say, okay this is what we feel happen, this is what we know to be true so that may take a few days at this point. >> all right. leroy -- >> you will have to remember that there might be -- there might be -- they externally look at body. and while you say it could be accidental and it could also be that a homicide took place. the bodies were placed back in the car and then the car was pushed back into the pond. so they look at all of the external injuries, the internal injuries to determine whether or not it was a homicide or it was an accident. >> well, we certainly hope and pray that this was just a tragic accident and these girls did not suffer. that this was something that happened within a tiny moment
take a look at those three beautiful women. kyrstin gemar, ashley neufeld, afton williamson. manitoba, canada. grossmont, california. they had been going to dickinson state university. and they were really, really involved in athletics, particularly the school's softball team. they're all players on the softball team. everything was going great until about 11:49 on sunday.
that night the mood changed when there was a very, very frightening cell phone call that came in from one of these young women. begging for help. something had gone wrong. hysterical noises in the background. a mention of water but it was all very unclear. then a minute later, another 30-second call. and then suddenly the phones went dead. the three of the girls had gone together with a small dog in their jeep cherokee to go star-gazing outside campus. the cell phone tower showed that they were in the vicinity, the cell phone tower that pinged off of the cell phone calls was five miles from the university. but they couldn't find them. there was a massive search by air, by ground, and then just minutes ago during this broadcast we got the terrible, terrible news that all three
were found dead pulled from a pond northwest of dickinson. they were in a vehicle. police are still investigating the cause of death. jim moray, you're the chief correspondent at "inside edition" and we've worked on so many stories together, crime stories and tragedies. we don't know how these young women died. but it's just a heartbreak when we have to report something like this and a shocker too. we had no idea that this was going to happen, obviously breaking news during our broadcast. >> jane, look, you and i have covered a lot of crime stories. we don't know if this is an accident or a crime. i'm sitting, watching as are all of your guests and viewers, i have got two daughtsors, 23 and 20 and i think about those parents and the calls that you get from your children and late at night are always the ones
that make you jump and make you anxious and the scenario that you just described of getting a frantic call talking about water, hearing hysterical -- screaming or noises behind, you don't know what to think. and as a parent you always fear the worst. and my heart, as i know yours does, goes out to these families. investigators clearly have a lot of work do. they have to decide and conclude whether or not this was an accident, whether this a crime scene. could that take some time. clearly are there inferrens that you could dawfrom this. if they were in the car as you say it's possible it simply went off of the road. it was a remote area as you described. we would presume there aren't any, if any, lights out there. if they were going star-gazing. maybe they just went off of the road but clearly you don't want to jump to conclusions now. you want to let the investigators do their work. >> sure. >> but this is the most difficult type of story to report when you have three young women with their futures in front of them and now they're
extinguished like that. >> now we've just gotten new information in from the associated press. police are saying, stacey honowitz, that it is the jeep that they were last seen in. so they were in their own vehicle. police say they followed the tracks into the pond but here's an interesting point. the pond is 12 feet deep. so it's not a very, very deep pond but it is deep enough to be higher than the height of these young women. your thoughts, stacey. >> again, jane, i'd just be speculating. i mean what troubles me i think is the frantic phone call. you know if you're kind of -- i guess you could look at it both ways. if you're sinking you think have time to make the call. or if you see something really terrible coming towards you or somebody being attacked you have time to make a call that could be just as frightening. so again i'd be speculating and again they have, like jim said, the investigators have their work cut out for them.
and we will hear bits and pieces as the days go on. as they let some of the information out as to where it's heading towards a homicide or towards an accident. >> well, michelle sigona, one of the young women's father said that he thought that -- even before this terrible, terrible news broke, he thought that everything pointed to an accident. now that you're hearing that police follow the tracks into the pond that's 12 feet deep and that it is the jeep that they were last seen in, what are your thoughts as a longtime investigative reporter? >> again, what it does appear to be at this particular moment is an accident. i can tell you based on covering stories in north dakota, and i've been to many towns through there and i've driven from many large cities from mynott to bismarck and all across is that when you are driving it's not heavily populated. this is of courts one of those states where you know the larger cities are more populated than the other. so this particular area from what i've been told is that when
they drove out there, you know there's a lot of lakes and a lot of hills and a lot of -- you know just a lot of land where you could kind of get lost. and so you know who knows. this obviously may had been an area that they've traveled to before. you know i can say that kyrstin's father did tell me that he -- his daughters told them before that she's gone out to star-gaze and has gone out to do those time things with her girlfriends. i can tell you that afton is pretty new to the campus. she was a transfer in. and so she is sort of new to the group. but the other two girls were better friends throughout -- throughout their time playing softball together. and that the team itself is actually very close. >> what a terrible development to just arrive at a university and then a tragedy like this befalls you. mike brooks on the phone. he is hln law enforcement analyst. again, an expert in these kinds of tragic occurrences. mike, you've been hearing the information as it's come in,
drips and drabs the tragic news that these three young women were found dead in a jeep pulled from a pond northwest of their university. what are your thoughts in terms of how this investigation will proceed? >> reporter: well, i can tell you, jane the investigation, they will take a look at everything. it sounds like where you start is going to be this cell phone call. that is the first thing. that's the one known that they have. we know that there was the cell tower was about five miles from campus. now were there any other cell towers that they could possibly triangulate to find out exactly where it was? apparently not. but things that they'll look at. look at all of the woman's phones. and also take a look where all of the women fully, totally inside of the car? there's a number of different scenarios, jane, that i could think of. i don't want to speculate about that now. the other things that the investigators will take a look at, was there any damage? were they run into this pond,
what was the proximity of this pond to the road? was it a secondary road? was it a main road? and a lot of people don't realize it, jane, but i did a story back a number years ago on an auto accident. different makes of cars, people don't realize it, but there is eye basically what we call it a black box that can give you a number of readouts of the vehicle about how fast it was going. if it had brakes, all of these kind of things. i have to look in to find out whether or not if the jeep does have these. it can tell you a lot of information about what happened right before it went into the water. >> this was a 1997 white jeep cherokee. and so my thoughts, mike, while we have you, in terms of some cars are more likely to rollover than others, this is sort of a boxy car. it's not a little tiny, tiny car. any thoughts about how this
particular vehicle might factor in, if in fact, the tracks went from the road off into the pond? >> reporter: you know a jeep cherokee especially a 1997 would probably do better off-road. in fact they're made -- a lot of them are 4-wheel drive vehicles that are made to go off-road and that's possibly what these women may have done. but if i'm not mistaken, jane, you shown on one graphic the cell phone, the one call that came about 11:49, it was a 40-second call. >> yeah. >> reporter: that's a long call if this car had gone into the water and was starting to sink and go under the water. usually it would not take that long. was the woman call for help because maybe the two other were in the car and gone into the water? again all of the scenarios and i don't want to speculate about but they'll take a look, look for any kind of damage as i said to see if they were forced from the car. look around the pond.
were there tracks leading into the pond? >> well, that's what the police said. they followed the tracks into the pond which was 12 feet deep and let me just ask you this follow-up question, mike. >> reporter: yep, there you go. >> is that we've all seen stories like this where once the car is submerged it's not easy to open the doors. >> no. depending on either electronic locks or if they had manual, a lot easier to open up with the manual but still possible to do it with the electric box. we've seen many stfrs. i've been in scenarios where how hard it would be to get out of a car and to get into rescue purposes. but when you are panicking, jane, and you haven't thought about you know, what if something would ever happen like that people just react differently. >> well, once again, we are just really, really disheartened, sad, depressed to have to tell you that these three, beautiful young women have just been discovered dead.
we're just getting word that a prayer service has been scheduled for tonight on the campus of dickinson state university as the student body comes together to mourn the death of these three beautiful young women that you're looking at right here. all three, members of the softball team, friends. and they went star-gazing in a rural farming area in north dakota. and sunday night they disappeared. they simply vanished into thin
air along with a small dog that they had with them. but not before placing two calls, two frantic cell phone calls, a minute apart. one at 11:18 p.m. and one a minute later. and there were hysterical noises in the background. the one call and a reference to water. and just moments ago police informed us that, yes, they found the three coeds dead and they pulled them from a pond northwest of their university. they were in their jeep cherokee. and now the question, why? was it an accident? were they fleeing something? was it very dark and they simply couldn't tell that they were going into a pond 12 feet deep? police say that they follow the tracks into this pond which we're now learning is 50 yards wide, 50 yards long.
so it wasn't very long. and i want to go back out to jim moray. because again, jim, you have covered so many of these cases over the years. you know what strikes us all is if it's 12 feet deep, 50 yards long, 50 yards wide and you drive in there for whatever reason, how hard is it to get out of a situation like that and the decision to make a phone call perhaps as opposed to just frantically trying to get out of the car. we can't really speculate but you've covered so many of these. we just got word, one thing that just came into my ear. police are saying foul play is not suspected. so that's excellent news in the sense that it's a comfort hopefully to the parents. foul play is not suspected, jim. >> a couple of years ago, jane, i took a training course where you learn what to do if you're in an aircraft and you make a
water landing. and you're actually submerged in a pool. and it's very easy to become disoriented. so when you talk about a pond that's 12 feet deep, you're also talking about an area they were going -- we know that they were going star-gazing. so that -- you can assume that there's not many lights in the area or otherwise wouldn't be able to see the stars. it's easy to become disoriented. we don't know the positioning of the jeep, if it was right-side up. if they went in head first. you simply don't know so many things. but i can tell you from experience that it is very easy to become disoriented when you're under water. you're told, follow the bubbles. but if it's dark and if the electrical system went out, we don't know if there were any lights. that's why i know that my kids have their phones on speed dial for home and maybe they grabbed their phones and did the first thing that they could but it may had been very difficult to get the doors open. again, i don't want to speculate but i do know having gone through this one training course, it's not as easy as it
sounds even though in broad daylight it would be a very different story. >> i want to tell you something about these three beautiful, young women. you're looking at ashley neufeld there. she was an outfielder. she played in 29 games last season. compiling a batting average of .314. and collecting 16 rbis which is quite an accomplishment. now afton williamson, who is in the hair bun, maybe we can show you her picture. she was the recent transfer from riverside community college in riverside, california. and according to one of her friends, she was one of the happiest people ever. always smiling. loved playing softball. an extremely hard worker. always a smile on her face especially when she's on the field. and again, it just seems so unfair that these three youngsters, 20, 21, 22, will go
to the third, kyrstin gemar, she's the one who is in the navy blue. a third baseman. there she is. collected a batting average of .475 last season. she batted in 38 runs and hit ten home runs in 38 games played. i want to bring in psychologist. look at these beautiful, happy faces. i think we're all in shock that we started this show tonight talking about the fact that they were missing, hoping that they would be found. perhaps they forgot to call. perhaps there was some misunderstanding. and now we're talking about these three young women dead. >> just the shock of hearing their ages and that they're athletes is absolutely terrible. and as viewers, i think the amount of pain that we're thinking about their parents being in right now is tremendous. as a psychologist, what i'm
thinking about, as far as the accident or what would have seemed to have happened is the panic that they must have felt must have really been disorienting because of the dark and being in the water. so you have three girls that are athletic like that and young, just barely out of their teens, i can see how the panic must have really been a factor in whatever happened there. >> yeah. and they're going to have to look at the evidence, michelle sigona. they were stargazing. they brought a young -- a small dog with them. they had made these calls with the three cell phones. so obviously, it's going to be very key in terms of what exactly was in that vehicle. >> you're exactly right. and as mike brooks mentioned earlier, what will happen is investigators will start with those cell phone records and start to see exactly where -- you know, as close to the area of the pond as they can possibly get to to see where, you know, those calls actually came in from. and then from that point then they'll probably go out to the land to see how the vehicle actually went from the land and into the water to be able to
again, terrible news that we reluctantly report. these three beautiful young women that you've been looking at, all sadly, tragically dead. authorities pulled their bodies from a pond northwest of the university they were attending in north dakota. dickinson state. we're just hearing now that one of the ways that they may have been alerted to this particular pond was that aerial searchers noticed oil on the surface of this pond, which is 50 yards wide, 50 yards long, and 12 feet deep. right jenny michael
from the "bismarck tribune" on the phone. jen jenny, what can you tell us about this terrible tragedy? >> well, ground searchers at 2:45 mountain standard time saw vehicle tracks leading into the stock pond with oil residue on the surface. from there crews in the air were able to see a white vehicle in the water. at 4:25 mountain standard time the 1997 white jeep grand cherokee belonging to one of the girls was pulled from the pond. all three girls were inside, and all three were dead at that time. >> now, what about some of the other details that we've heard about this case, that they were traveling with a small dog? has the dog been located? what about the three cell phones? what can you tell us about some of the details? >> well, i guess at the news conference that was held shortly after they discovered the girls, nothing was actually said about the dog. we're not sure about that at
this time. it's believed the girls were up on a stargazing trip. at this time we don't actually know where the pond was except that it was northwest of dickinson. >> all right. mike brooks, what do you make of the fact that authorities are now saying flat out they do not suspect foul play and that they're describing this -- and i'll throw that to michelle sigona. they're describing this, it would seem to me they're really leaning to it's just a tragic accident. >> yeah, that does appear what it seems to be at this point in time. it does at this particular moment appear to be a tragic accident. but having said that, investigators will still move forward with the autopsy. they'll still move forward with an investigation to be able to say 100% sure, okay, yes, in fact, this was an accident or whatever the case may be and we feel that it happened in this manner. and over the next couple days, jane, you and i both know that we will be able to track this case very easily and to be able to figure out exactly how this happened. and i'm sure that investigators in that area, because they are
working extremely hard on this, i was on the phone with them late last night up until just a couple of hours ago. >> let me bring in randy kessler, who's been very patient, noted attorney. if this is an accident, could there be any legal recourse at all for these families, sir? >> well, jane, of course i want to share in the condolences expressed by your guests. there could be. it may be premature. there's no criminal case obviously now but there may be a civil case. but the real sad thing is until we learned it was an accident we all jumped to the conclusion and in america we're less safe and we just feel less safe. we want closure. with you one way to bring about closure is to find out why there was this accident. and if there is liability you can bet there will be a lawsuit. if the car was mismanufactured-f there was some malfunction. they'll be looking into all aspects of the accident. >> we just have to say here on "issues" that we're all heartbroken. look at these beautiful smiling faces filled with opportunity and talent. and it's really sad to have to report tonight that these three young women are dead. and our condolences.